Interview with Dr. Yin Zhiyao

Zheng Liu: Dr. Yin, Thank you very much for your time. Would you first please introduce yourself to the alumni?

Gerald Zhiyao Yin: My name is Gerald Yin, in Chinese, it is Yin Zhiyao. I am a Vice President for Applied Materials, Inc., the world-leader in semi-conductors business. Our company has revenue of about 8 billion dollars annually. We have 17,000 employees in offices throughout the world. It is the largest semi-conductor equipment manufacturing company in the world. I am the general manager of the Etch Product Group and responsible for a group of the products, called plasma-etching equipment. We have somewhere between 1 to 1.3 billion dollar businesses for this group of particular products. Plasma etcher is the equipment that defines the smallest geometry, we are talking about from 1 micron to 0.1 micron for the semi-conductor device. The key steps are lithography and plasma etching for defining device patterns. I joined Applied Materials in 1991, and have spent most of my time on new product development, responsible for the plasma etching research and development division. Prior to Applied Materials, I came to the Silicon Valley in 1984 and worked for Intel Corporation in its Central Technology Development unit, in plasma etching. In 1986 I joined Lam Research as a senior process engineer and later became the technology development manager. Before I left Lam, I was the Senior Manager of the Research and Development Department. I was responsible in developing the Rainbow Plasma Etch equipment and some other new generation equipment. Lam Research became one of the world-leading equipment companies with a number of very good products on the market. In 1991 I moved to Applied Materials, Inc., and was responsible for plasma-etching technology development and engineering functions. We developed Mxp, DPS, and IPS, a number of leading plasma etch equipment. Applied Materials has been a world leader for plasma etch for a number of years, pushing the technology from 1.0 micron down to 0.10 micron, and we are now working on 0.1 micron technology. We have received more than 60 US and foreign patents, with a number of patents pending. The equipment that I developed or participated in developing now occupies about 50% of the worldwide plasma patterning market.

I graduated from the University of Science & technology of China (Chinese University of Science and Technology), Department of Chemical Physics. From 1968 to 1973, I worked for the Petrol Chemical Industry in China, in Lanzhou Oil Refinery. From 1973 to 1978, I moved to the Lanzhou Institute of Chemical Physics of Chinese Academy. From 1978 to 1980, I was a graduate student in Beijing University, majoring in Chemical Physics. My professor was Tang Youchi, who was the Chairman of the Chinese Association of Chemistry. I came to University of California, Los Angeles in 1984, with the support of my American relatives, majoring in Chemical Physics and received my Ph.D. For the past 16 years I have been working in the Silicon Valley.

In addition, I participated in creating the Silicon Valley Chinese Engineer Association where I was the President for the first two terms. This association has become very popular in Silicon Valley, with a membership of more than four hundred.

L: A quick question before we move forward. Since many people outside your field will read the transcript of this interview, what is plasma etching?

Y: If you want to make a large-scale integrated circuit, which is the core of a computer you need micro patterning. If you open a computer, you will find many small black boxes with legs, which are called chips. The chip has millions of transistors, capacitors and connected wires, called an integrated circuit. To make this integrated circuit, you need to have a patterning technology when making the circuitry pattern, with optical imaging technology, on photosensitive polymers. However, you have to use plasma-etching technology to transfer the pattern onto the real device, to make the device transistors, capacitor, and resistors. The foundation of so-called high tech is the chip industry; we are talking about the micron technology, from 1 micron, to 0.5, and 0.1 micron, and so on. Now the leading edge 0.13-to-0.10 micron technology is here under development.

If you can make smaller and smaller circuits, you can contain more and more transistors in the same area, the speed and capacity of the chip will be much higher.

L: Thank you very much for your explanation, now I think most readers will be able to understand the significance of your work.

Most USTC alumni who came early to the U.S., in the early 80s', like you did, chose academic. It was actually in the 90's many alumni went into industry. You started a very successful career in the corporate world very early. When you graduated with your Ph.D, what made you choose industry over academic?

Y: My background is between academic and industry, even when I was in China. My major was chemical physics, which was more academic, I was probably supposed to work in academic institutions. However, because of the culture revolution, I was assigned to work in a factory and started to get a taste of industry and business. This was very good training for me. Although we need to have academic work, the bottom line is you have to convert knowledge from the academic work into the real world, which is making products, making profits, and also running large-scale productions. This concept was already in my mind when I was in China. So, I had five years experience in industry, doing real hands-on work, and five years fundamental research works in the Chinese Institute of Chemical Physics. This background makes me believe that even if I get an advanced degree, I have to somehow convert my knowledge into products. That is why I did not hesitate to go into industry when I graduated with my Ph.D. degree.

L: You spent more than five years at USTC, what part of your USTC experience do you value most? What did you learn in USTC that really helped you later in your career?

Y: At USTC, I learned a lot of the basics in mathematics, physics, and chemistry. Although we did not know anything about industry, we had a very solid background. I remembered clearly Professor Yan Jichi, who was a very famous physicist. He was our physicist professor for three years and he would give a four-hour lecture twice a week. All the extensive training in physics gave me a sound foundation for understanding the rules of nature. Overall, mathematics, physics, and chemistry can help one understand anything one might encounter in the future.

The spirit that KeDa encouraged was amazing. I remembered the saying that "bu yao min de shang KeDa". We had a lot of homework and everybody worked extremely hard, we all studied late into the night. Some students studied very late, and some others started their day very early. It was almost like we were working in shifts: the students who came back late met the students who started early in the classrooms. The teaching building (Jiao Xue Da Lou) was lighted day and night. Some of the students could not take the pressure, but the ones who went through five years of hard work had KeDa's spirit, they were able to take any pressure later in their work.

L: That was my own experience, too. Once one survives KeDa, it is much easier to survive in other environments. You mentioned last time that there are probably more than twenty or thirty alumni working in Applied Materials. You have also met many alumni in Silicon Valley. In general, what qualities do you think, KeDa alumni have or lack, for success in industry?

Y: The good qualities our alumni have are they are very smart, they all have very good basic knowledge, they work hard and they work sincerely. What they need to have is an understanding of industry and business. KeDa emphasizes science and technology, but not the knowledge of industry and the real world. As a KeDa student, if they want to be successful in industry, they should understand more about industry, like volume production, the economics factors involved, like profitability, the whole nine yards.

L: A lot of the students who are now in graduate school are facing the choice among academic, corporate, and even entrepreneurship. What suggestions do you have for them?

Y: I think it should be discussed case by case. Some are bright students, their interests are to explore new things and understand the laws of nature. I would encourage them to pursue their career in academics. Even in that direction, I think they should have both a theoretical background and practical knowledge. For example, they should have hands-on experience to work in the lab, the ability to attack issues, and the ability to solve problems in the most effective way. I've seen a lot of Chinese students who do very well in courses; some of them have straight As. However, when they go into academic research or the practical world, their creativity is limited by their lack of practical knowledge and common sense. In the real world, one has to be able to understand real problems and how to solve the problem; it is totally different than just learning from the professors in the classroom. Overall, I think creativity; initiative, common sense, logical thinking, and problem solving are very important, no matter if one works in industry or academics. For students who are interested in industry, in making real products, making profits, to change the world, I would very much encourage them to do so. I don't think there are general rules for career selection, every student should make their own choice.

L: It is interesting that you mentioned common sense twice. Other alumni in our interviews have mentioned all qualities such as initiative, creativity, persistency, etc. From what I recall, you are the first one who emphasizes common sense. Do you have something specific in mind?

Y: What I mean by common sense is philosophical understanding and attitudes towards life. No matter what major or field one is in, eventually what makes a person successful is common sense. I guess most of us know Mao's book "Mao Dun Lun" (The discussion on contradictory). No matter which aspects of the world we are talking about, science, literature, politics, there is always something in common throughout the world and human history. When one learns something specific, one has to figure out what is common between this specific thing with other things in life. When one has common sense, one will know how to attack a specific problem at the most fundamental level. In my work and collaboration with others, I have seen many breakthroughs, either in thinking, product, or technology. In the majority of cases, the breakthrough comes from common sense, not complicated theories. I like philosophy and read a lot of philosophical books, but I believe there are things in common between science, technology and social science and would recommend the young students read them, too.

L: What do you know about USTC Overseas Alumni Foundation? What do you like about our work and in what areas do you think that we can improve?

Y: I only learned about AF from your explanation the other day. From the part I understand, I really appreciate that some of the alumni took the initiative to set up the foundation, raise funds to help our alma mater, and help young students to do better work. I think this is very meaningful work.

L: AF is establishing a new program to help senior undergraduate students to gain working experience through internships. We've had alumni who, for example, open a high-tech company in China and express their willingness to hire students from KeDa as interns. What do you think of this program?

Y: In this area I can actually help. I've already recommended the hiring of several KeDa students into our company; we also have offices in Shanghai and Wuxi. If some Keda students are interested in working for us, I will help to make recommendations. This is a very exciting company and would be a very good opportunity for students. To make things short, back in the 1970s' three top researchers from AT&T's Bell Lab were frustrated that their research only went into papers and presentations instead of something substantial. So they came to Silicon Valley and applied their knowledge in industry. In the early 1980s' they joined Applied Materials and totally transformed this company utilizing advanced science and technology. The company has grown from a few hundred people to 17,000 employees. It is the number one high-tech equipment company in the world. This shows how top researchers can make tremendous impact in industry

L: That is wonderful news. Just out of curiosity, how many people are working under you in the company?

Y: Directly about six hundred people and indirectly another six to seven hundred people. The revenue per employee is 500 thousand dollars per year.

L: This is very impressive. Could you tell us about your own experience in the corporate world, how have you become so successful?

Y: Working in a top high-tech company like this is very challenging. Our company has employees from more than sixty different countries. One has to understand people's background, interest, culture and their problems. I have learned so much from working with different people. The bottom line is still common sense. Human beings have similar natures. After you understand the common part of people, you will know how use a similar approach to deal with them. To become a leader, one has to learn how to convince people to do what you think is the right thing, how to take care of your people so that they will follow you. It is not just technology; it requires a lot of organizational skills and personal skills. One needs some type of charisma. People need to trust you and follow you. There will always be a lot of politics, caused by cultural differences, misunderstandings or even bad intentions. For example, Asians and Americans treat one another very differently. It reminds me of a story: An American manager was sent to Japan because of some equipment problems. Very often the plasma etching chambers become very dirty with deposits from plasma reaction by-products. A clean environment is required to make large-scale integrated circuits. Condensation and particles will ruin the equipment. The Japanese customer was very unhappy. When the American manager opened the plasma reactor, he cried, "I can't believe it!" He couldn't believe how dirty the chamber was and how bad the situation was. However, the Japanese engineers thought he was denying that the chamber was even dirty! They were very angry and complained to our president of the Japan Division and asked never to send this manager again. Although this is not a joke, it's a true story; this kind of misunderstanding happens everyday in a big company like ours, just in different forms.

L: Do you have anything else you would like to tell the alumni?

Y: I went to Beijing Forth Boy high school and then KeDa. I worked in different institutes and companies in both China and the US, and I've learned a lot. I think the students in KeDa should spend some time trying to understand the outside world. They should be open-minded and not concentrate only on studying and getting good scores, like what I did when I was in school. I spent more than 90 percent of my time and energy just in study. However, there are so many things going on in the world and so many different aspects of life we need to understand. My hope is that students in KeDa can spend at least 20 to 30 percent of their time focusing on what is happening in the country and in the world. Unless they do, how will they know what the objective of their study is? As good students in a top school, we have to think a little higher than just getting straight As. We should think rationally and with innovation.

L: Thank you!